I remain totally perplexed by these
flags. I say I'm in Chzant in Hampshire
and they've gone up over the I think the
last weekend
>> all along the the road where all the
clothes to where I live. And I think
it's to do with the Marriott Hotel or
what used to be the Marriott Hotel in
Chzant which is now hosting or housing
the um
>> those seeking asylum and the economic
migrants.
>> And and what it is I think it's it's
saying you know you're not welcome. I'm
a person of color. I like flags. We had
a street party here for the king's
coronation. Flags were were displayed.
Union Jack hands and George.
>> But there's no mystery on that day why
those flags are being put up, is there?
There's no there's no phone in there.
Why have they put flags up on my street?
Cuz they're crowning the king, you plum.
>> Exactly. But the point I want to make is
that even when there was the World Cup
in 2014, 2018, 2022 and the Euros, these
flags were never put on the street
furniture as they are as they are now.
So, I think it's overt racism um without
actually saying inverbally you're not
welcome here.
>> And is that how you feel?
>> Um potentially I could be walking to my
local Tesco and someone could think I'm
an economic migrant and spit at me or
kick me or abuse me, you know,
>> and I'm actually a local solister
>> and and that is a more acute possibility
now than it was 5, 10 or 15 years ago.
>> Absolutely.
>> And the flags are part of that process.
>> Absolutely. And and obviously, you know,
as a as a solicitor, you'll recognize
other people might feel something
completely different um when they look
at it. But that's what you feel. It's
what James feels. It's what many people
feel. Is it what we are intended to
feel? You we are staking our claim. We
are marking our territory. We are
telling people who do not look like us
that they are not welcome. I hope not.
But if you um don't like that analysis,
then you need to explain your thinking
on 034560973.
>> I want to say that I think that the
councils when they're taking the flags
down have made a massive mistake. Um
>> they're not doing a very good job.
>> Well, that is good. Now, I wouldn't
usually support them going up or down or
this or that.
>> Where where are they taking them down?
cuz most of the things I've been sent
already including someone who's been in
touch with his own council explaining
why they're staying up.
>> Well, that's good then because I you
hear things in the news and you see
things about the flags coming down say
on the same day but maybe perhaps other
flags say Palestinian flags have been up
there for a week.
>> No, but in terms of what you've what
you've witnessed and experienced.
Well, even if I haven't witnessed or
experienced it, the fact that I've heard
that means that I'm now part of a
growing undercurrent of people who
probably think that do you know what
they should be left up there because
>> but they are being but they are being
left up there.
>> Well, that's good. and and that is good.
And I think that even whether it's true
or not, the narrative about them coming
down has really annoyed people who
generally wouldn't care
>> right
>> to the point because how can I put it?
>> This is England. If you want to put up
an England flag, there's nothing wrong
with that and they shouldn't be. The
fact that it's been
>> Well, unless it's unless it's in an area
where you're not allowed to put any
flags. Well, that that would
>> I mean I know they they've taken one
down because the rope um which had been
strung across a road was so strong that
if a high vehicle had gone into it, it
could have caused a hideous accident. So
those are the ones that had generally
been taken down. And the the historic
examples of this are almost always
communal areas where you're not allowed
to hang anything at all and then the
Daily Telegraph or the Daily Mail gets
hold of it and they pretend that it's an
assault upon the English flag. And and
respectfully, I think they're aiming for
people like you, aren't they, when they
print those misinformations
>> cuz you you've just said you're getting
it you're getting it from the news. You
got no evidence that it's true, but
you're definitely certain that you're
cross. And to quote you, this is
England.
>> Yeah. It's not so much I'm cross. It's a
matter of the fact that if you want to
put up a flag in England, you should be
able to put up the Union flag or the St.
George's Cross. And even though it's a
bit annoying,
>> where should you be? Where should you be
able to put it?
>> I would suggest when they're on things
like the the street uh on the uh
>> But what if you live on that street and
you don't like them?
>> Well, to be fair, I live around the
corner from Khloe Kelly uh that the
fantastic England lioness and her
family's house has had them up.
>> Yeah, but there's no there's no mystery
about why those flags are up. That's not
the flags that we're talking about
today. We established in the we
established in the first call that the
that this is nothing to do with support
for example at the moment for the
English rugby team. So what I mean I'm
just intrigued by this sort of blanket
right that you think people have to put
these flags up because to quote you
again this is England. What if I don't
want them on my street?
>> I say a little bit cheeky cheeky. It's a
little bit naughty maybe. But I can
understand it at the moment cuz there
does seem to be an undercurrent of
saying it's wrong to put up a flag. And
it's almost like if you
>> if you just have a little crack at the
question I've asked you. What about my
rights not to have them on my street?
I'm not going to tell you you can't put
them up in your garden or in your
sitting room window or wherever else you
might want to or on your car bonnet or
whatever it may be. But what what if I
don't want my local roundabout to be
painted or I don't want flags on my
street? What what what what happens to
my rights in a public space?
>> Well, this is England and so if you go
around and you see a flag in England and
it's the English flag, you might just
have to realize that okay, fair enough.
It's where I live,
>> right? So, absolutely everywhere
>> all the time.
>> No limit, no point at which you go
that's that's a bit much now.
>> Yeah. If people have the money and time
to do it at the moment, I think it's
just proving the point that you won't
tell us we can't do it.
>> Yeah. at some point they'll get bored,
you know, and it'll go back to normal
just before, you know, the football
tournaments and things like that. But I
think it's got to the point where you
said we can't do it and now we're
definitely going to do
>> and there will be some examples of where
people have been told to take them down.
But it's interesting that you're basing
it on your news reports rather than the
evidence of your own eyes and ears
because that is of course what the news
reports are designed to do. I think
you're sort of a bit more right than
perhaps you realize. It is absolutely
designed uh and done in the hope that
people will be told to take it down so
that then people can get cross and
complain. Just briefly on this question
of marking territory, how do you respond
to that analysis? It's a it's a marking
of I think you agree, don't you?
>> Because because this is England.
>> I kind of
>> and if you're not English, just suck it
up, snowflake.
It can be seen as as that, but I'd
suggest it's going to be a small flash
in the pan just because people were told
they couldn't do it. They're proving
that they can. And
>> so they are marking that they're marking
their territory. And the message it
sends to people who are not English is
not a very nice message.
>> No, I don't I don't think that's true. I
I think for the people who aren't
English, who maybe don't like it for,
you know, for any number of reasons,
they do live in England and they will
see it. So, you know, sometimes. So at
the moment it's a flash point. It you
know it's a hot topic. So it will go
away.
>> I wonder it is tend I mean what happens?
Do they take them down again? How does
it go away? You don't want them taken
down but you think it's going to go away
as a there's a little mystery um to to
wrestle with as we head towards the next
hiatus. It's definitely going to go
away. But you definitely shouldn't be
allowed to take them down. Riddle me
that.
>> So my neighbors have recently put one
up. um they've never put one up before
when England was playing the football,
right?
>> Uh they've never been very patriotic
before, but all of a sudden they are
right. And I am as as me and the other
neighbors are all aware the reasons why
feeling that sort of, you know, this is
our country. We're putting up our flag.
All of these rhetoric.
>> Um to be honest, as a black Muslim
woman, it makes me feel very
uncomfortable because I know why they've
done it, right? There is a tension in
the air not just in my neighborhood
right now because of them but also the
whole country like the whole country is
so depressing at this moment and I can't
help but wonder you know this is nothing
about saving the women saving the
children of the country it's you know
our country's been invaded this is
actually if I'm going to be honest right
>> a fear and hatred towards Islam and
anyone that's brown and black right they
actually these people because I've done
my research on
feel like their country is being
invaded. They say things like, "We've
got young men of fighting age. They
we've been invaded, right?" So, it it's
like mass hysteria is going on. They
actually believe they've been invaded by
brown black Muslims that's going to come
and take over this country. It makes no
sense at all.
>> Well, I think there's a name for it,
isn't there? Don't don't I don't know if
it lands here, but in the States, I
think they call it the great replacement
theory, a conspiracy theory designed,
make sure I get this right, that that
politicians will make sure they stay in
power by filling the country up with
people who weren't born here because
they'll vote for a left-wing party
rather than a right-wing party for
reasons that no one's ever managed to
fully explain. And damn the
demographics. Whatever you do, don't
actually count anything. Don't look at
numbers. Don't don't measure the reality
that you're describing. Just feel the
fear. Feel the fear and feel the anger.
So the flag then becomes
what? A a a line of defense. A a line in
the sand. We are this and you are that
and never the twain shall meet.
>> Yes. And to be honest again there's a
bit of a jealousy that's actually thrown
in there as well. Right. They come over
here. They've been given hotels, phones,
iPhones, laptops, you know, they get
weekly money. We don't have any of these
things.
>> None of which is true.
None of which is true. I mean, I saw an
article on the Daily Mail this morning
that literally said these migrants are
being given brand new uh town houses
while the local population, you know,
are living in um temporary
accommodations. That is not true either.
>> Well, there'll be again there's always a
little kernel of truth in it. If you if
you are, you know, if your family is
here, then you will have options that
someone who's just arrived here from
elsewhere does not have. You you'll have
a roof over your head. You'll have
somewhere you can go. you'll have people
you can stay with and if you are, you
know, arrived here and your application
has been approved because you were
chased out of Afghanistan by the
Taliban, then you have no other option.
So councils will have to prioritize one
over the other, but they do so according
to a fixed set of rules that apply
equally to everybody. It's um
>> in the hands of irresponsible
journalists and politicians, it can look
very different from what it is to
people.
Can I just add I work as a counselor and
I work with some of these refugees. Um
you know they say where are the women
where are the children? Why is it only
young men of fighting age? That's not
true. There are women. There's a lot of
them and children families but they
separate the men from the women and the
children. Right? These people are
actually fleeing war. And British
people, English people, I'll say they
don't realize how lucky they are to have
the opportunities they have. They don't
feel very lucky. They don't feel very
lucky. And also, you know, fighting age
is working age. And and so, you know,
change the record and the argument
becomes the opposite of what it is when
they say fighting. They're not coming
over here to get well. They are
desperate to work. In other countries in
Europe, they're allowed to work while
their applications are processed per
capita. More applications than than we
get. Even in Ireland, even Ireland does
more than we do per capita in this kind
of space. But again, nobody actually
knows the facts or knows the truth.
Where do you derive your certainty that
your neighbors want you to be
intimidated by the flag that they're
flying?
>> Why they're flying it all of a sudden?
>> Why now?
>> Exactly. Why all of a sudden?
>> Could be the rugby world. Could be the
women's rugby world cup. Lea, maybe
they're massive women's rugby fans.
>> No, it's not. It's they they've never
put it up in the women's rugby club or
the England football team or any other
time. It's all of a sudden the England
flag has one up. So, you know, again,
right, I'm a Muslim person, and I
wouldn't, you know, I I support the
whole Palestinian cause, but I wouldn't
put up the flag outside my door knowing,
you know, that it's going to cause
tension or make other other people feel
uncomfortable. We know what's going on
across the globe. This has become like a
global movement. It's fashioned to be
racist at the moment. So, it's about
being aware of your surroundings, of
your neighbors, your community, and not
sort of, you know, putting fuel to the
fire and making everyone feel
uncomfortable around you.
>> Do you know that it is widely believed,
and I know this is a little bit boring
because some clever clogs does it every
single St. George's day. That it's it's
reckoned that St. George probably grew
up in the area known as Palestine and
was martyed there for his Christian
faith in about 303 AD. So maybe um the
way to get all these flags taken down is
to tell all the people putting them up
that they are demonstrating massive
solidarity with the Palestinian cause.
Just they haven't got the history to
realize it.
>> I think we've got a very angry uh
disengaged
population.
Um I think we've had about.5% better off
than the crash in 2008.
>> We've had a field in it. We've had
success. Where where does that number
come from? I don't know. I'm not I'm
just interested.
>> It's from It's from the government
manufacturing. It's from the the the the
um the operational manufacturing
strategy that's on the government
website.
>> So in in a specific area of industrial
production and manufacturing that sounds
about right. I mean I can't think of
many big big factories that have opened
recently. Although we've got the 10
billion pound warship deal to celebrate
>> and and let's let's celebrate it. But
I'm trying to I'm trying to understand
why people are putting flags up. I sort
of help out at these man's club and
stuff like that. And you find that
people can't live that they've had
oppressive kind of uh living kind of
structure to live in. And the media
tells them you've got to have everything
to be happy. They haven't got the money
to spend that on the things that make
them happy.
>> But this is true of everybody. This
isn't going to be more true for white
people or English people or brown people
or black people.
>> I think it's a tipping point. I really
do think it's a tipping point.
>> Does it not involve a tipping point?
Does does it not involve a belief that
some of the misfortunes you describe are
the fault of some of the big
>> No, it's just it's just the icing on the
cake. It's the scapegoat. It's happening
all through history.
>> That's what I mean. It's just it's a
scapegoat, but it's an easy to
understand scapegoat. The average Here's
another stat for you. The average
reading age, you probably know this.
You're a clever guy in this country is 9
9 to 11 years old.
>> The average reading age of the average
adult.
>> Yeah. 9 to 11. So if you keep it simple,
keep it keep it not not like what you
were doing dissecting it with with
intelligence. Keep it simple. You can
get everybody get anybody to do
anything.
>> They come in here to lick your biscuits
and and I'm going to go out and paint a
roundabout. And in a way your your
portrayal is quite poignant, isn't it?
You I mean I'm not suggesting anyone
should lie awake at night worrying about
these people necessarily, but if you are
so impotent that you think
>> painting a painting a roundabout in the
middle of the night is a
is a viable and important use of your
time.